Loggerheads?

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Loggerheads?

Postby neilsalop » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:03 pm

Just wondering if there was any chance of an announcement in the foreseeable future?

Would really love to buy some club merch. for my holiday in August and didn't really want to go to Toffs.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:57 pm

Last update was - http://www.shrewsburytown.com/news/arti ... 49230.aspx

One thing to point out though is I'm 100% sure that in all releases about the future rebranding the club have never mentioned the Loggerheads?
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby neilsalop » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:10 pm

ianwhit wrote:Last update was - http://www.shrewsburytown.com/news/arti ... 49230.aspx

One thing to point out though is I'm 100% sure that in all releases about the future rebranding the club have never mentioned the Loggerheads?


OK so what's on the horizon then? An effin' Teddy Bear to go along with Lenny or maybe the Shrew is going to make a comeback. I can't honestly see anything but the Loggerheads in some form when the club eventually get their collective backsides into gear and get on with the ''re-branding''. Anything else for me would just be paying lip service to fans, but you'd know all about that Ian.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:35 pm

As has been mentioned on many occasions the loggerheads are a problem when trying to copyright something with them in the traditional positions. I'm sure it will be an interesting discussion when it does come to the time to rebrand.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby neilsalop » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:10 pm

This is the first time I've seen or heard mentioned the ''traditional positions'' argument. No wonder the club went for Lenny instead.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:13 am

neilsalop wrote:This is the first time I've seen or heard mentioned the ''traditional positions'' argument. No wonder the club went for Lenny instead.


Really? It's been mentioned since the move to the ground that the use of the loggerheads in the traditional positions will always make it very hard to get through any trademark process. The position of them will always be flagged up as it is a very known design. It is something that came up but is still a point of contention with the pro loggerheads campaign.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby AgentOrange » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:16 pm

Neil, I'd take what Ian says with a pinch of salt.

He is a top chap but will always have to toe the party line as regards the ongoing "badge issue".

I'm no copyright expert, but don't believe for one minute that there would be a problem caused by the position of the Loggerheads. We spoke with a graphic designer who confirmed that - if you custom design the elements involved - you can position them wherever the hell you like. The triangular position is also hardly unique. There will be hundreds of companies with logos along these lines.

For my money, this is just the latest (in a long line) of weak excuses from the club regarding why we cannot have a badge which reflects our history, heritage and identity. First it was that the Council had banned it. Next came the tripe that having a clip art lion stops people producing knock-off merchandise. Then the cost argument. It is all a nonsense.

Let's not forget that the club actively sought to deceive us back in 2007. Steve Wellbeloved stated, and I quote: "the club has then gone about it [the design process] professionally". This has evidently not been the case. The new badge is a piece of clip art downloaded from the internet and shoved in a circle. Hardly a diligent undertaking as they tried to make out.

I would advise the club to consult some experts in the field and report back with the findings. If they can publicly produce tangible evidence that the positioning argument means we cannot have the Loggerheads back in their iconic pattern, they will have to work around this by tweaking the angles slightly. Three Loggerheads in a straight line would suffice.

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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby bodge4uk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:38 am

Perhaps as an idea for those who feel so strongly about this issue, the loggerheads campaign group could do so and present it to the club giving them an alternative and options to consider. Also given the huge cost that would be required to overhaul ALL signs, merchandise, equipment, etc... That has the current badge printed, etched or whatever on them, perhaps they could start a campaign to raise the funds needed which would then give the club an option to rebrand at no extra cost there by eliminating that problem issue.
Just an idea that may allow this whole saga to have a starting point to put a stake through the immortal heart of this whole issue
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:04 pm

AgentOrange wrote:I'm no copyright expert, but don't believe for one minute that there would be a problem caused by the position of the Loggerheads. We spoke with a graphic designer who confirmed that - if you custom design the elements involved - you can position them wherever the hell you like. The triangular position is also hardly unique. There will be hundreds of companies with logos along these lines.


And I spoke to another graphic designer at the same company that you did and they confirmed that the positioning of 3 loggerheads in that triangular positioning would cause problems in registering a trademark.

As the club have mentioned numerous times before the logo will be looked at in the future and it's hoped that all fans will have a say in what this might change to, and I'm sure you and you're campaign will fully support all fans having a say in that change?
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:15 pm

AgentOrange wrote:I would advise the club to consult some experts in the field and report back with the findings. If they can publicly produce tangible evidence that the positioning argument means we cannot have the Loggerheads back in their iconic pattern, they will have to work around this by tweaking the angles slightly. Three Loggerheads in a straight line would suffice.


So you are saying you would be happy for the Loggerheads to be positioned elsewhere other than the traditional triangular positioning?
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby AgentOrange » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:13 pm

ianwhit wrote:I'm sure you and your campaign will fully support all fans having a say in that change?

I think it is excellent news that the club have agreed to remove the shameful clip art lion. I hope it happens ASAP for the sake of increasing sales of official merchandise.

It's also a good thing that STFC are looking to engage the entire fan base, although I would find it irritating to see people who have previously claimed "I don't care about the badge" involving themselves within this process.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby AgentOrange » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:23 pm

ianwhit wrote:So you are saying you would be happy for the Loggerheads to be positioned elsewhere other than the traditional triangular positioning?

I have a strong preference for seeing the Loggerheads return in their iconic 'two-up-one-down' formation, as do many hundreds of Town fans.

You imply that this cannot take place due to copyright issues. We know that STFC have deceived us previously as regards the badge issue so I would like to see this claim verified by the UK's Copyright Licensing Agency. If they've already looked into this, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to obtain documentary evidence stating the claims you have made in this thread.

If this latest excuse was to be confirmed as valid, we would need to look at the situation pragmatically. From my personal point of view, compromising on a new badge which included a slightly different positioning of Loggerheads would still be a far better option than persisting with the current soulless logo.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby AgentOrange » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:37 pm

bodge4uk wrote:perhaps they could start a campaign to raise the funds needed which would then give the club an option to rebrand at no extra cost there by eliminating that problem issue.

What you fail to realise is that reinstating the Loggerheads would be an investment for the club. It will result in vastly increased sales of official merchandise and, after a few years, a re-brand would pay for itself.

Also, we're not that interested in the club 'overhauling' every single piece of clip art paraphernalia immediately. Items such as ties, carpet and plates have a finite shelf-life and will need replacing at some point anyway due to natural wear and tear.

Change the crest on the shirt, the website, the programme and remove those bloody awful clip art lions from the side of the stadium. That will do. All other replacements can wait until the clip art items have become shabby and need reordering.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:16 pm

AgentOrange wrote:
ianwhit wrote:So you are saying you would be happy for the Loggerheads to be positioned elsewhere other than the traditional triangular positioning?

I have a strong preference for seeing the Loggerheads return in their iconic 'two-up-one-down' formation, as do many hundreds of Town fans.

You imply that this cannot take place due to copyright issues. We know that STFC have deceived us previously as regards the badge issue so I would like to see this claim verified by the UK's Copyright Licensing Agency. If they've already looked into this, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to obtain documentary evidence stating the claims you have made in this thread.

If this latest excuse was to be confirmed as valid, we would need to look at the situation pragmatically. From my personal point of view, compromising on a new badge which included a slightly different positioning of Loggerheads would still be a far better option than persisting with the current soulless logo.


Good to know that you and your campaign would be happy to have a badge with the 3 loggerheads in different positions.
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Re: Loggerheads?

Postby ianwhit » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:18 pm

AgentOrange wrote:
ianwhit wrote:I'm sure you and your campaign will fully support all fans having a say in that change?

I think it is excellent news that the club have agreed to remove the shameful clip art lion. I hope it happens ASAP for the sake of increasing sales of official merchandise.

It's also a good thing that STFC are looking to engage the entire fan base, although I would find it irritating to see people who have previously claimed "I don't care about the badge" involving themselves within this process.


So your campaign is saying that it would not be happy with all Town fan's to have a say in the process of choosing a new badge?
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